Bob Dylan – “Masters of War” (1963)
Group Members: Robert F., Tonya E., Josh P. Edward G.
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About Me
- Erin M.
- BA, English - Wingate University, 2004. MA, English - Clemson University, 2007. GC, Latin American/Latino Studies - University of Louisville, May 2011. PhD, Humanities, University of Louisville (in progress). Adjunct Instructor of English, Jefferson Community & Technical College and Indiana University Southeast.
13 comments:
Bob Dylan – “Masters of War” (1963)
Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build the big bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks
You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly
Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain
You fasten the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud
You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins
How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
Even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do
Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul
And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand o'er your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead
Hello ladies and gentlemen my name is Ed and I am in Erin's English 102 Tuesday and Thursday morning class. I for one have never heard this song yet although I thoroughly like Bob Dylan and his folksy approach to his lyrics and instrumentals. In my opinion of this song just from the reading of the lyrics gives me a feeling of anarchy from the writer. He is very angry about the war in Vietnam. He blames the government for getting involved. When he at the end of the song wants to stand over the grave of the people who sent the young men to die in a war he doesn’t support, I think he wants the government to fall which would cause anarchy. Without hearing the song it is hard to tell the tone of Dylan.
Hi. My name is Tonya E. and I’m also in Erin McCoy’s writing class on Tuesdays and Thursdays. This song by Bob Dylan is not one that I’m familiar with. After reading only the lyrics I sense a strong hatred toward the government. He is obviously referring to the government as being deceitful and coward. I’m not surprised at his hatred. Maybe he had some personal loss in the war. He refers to the government as having a goal that he doesn’t think they can achieve. That goal is winning a world war. I personally don’t think a world war is going to bring peace either. That doesn’t mean I don’t believe in war. I do think war has its place in securing our freedom. I just don’t know that this war was legitimate.
Bob Dylan refers to the government as Masters of War. He depicts them as being knowledgeable at what they are doing as far as making the things necessary for war, yet hiding behind their desks in fear of their own lives.
Hi, my name is Robert. It is my first semester here at JCC, and I’m trying to get most of my required GenEd classes taken care of. I enrolled at UofL out of high school in 2006, wanting to pursue an M.D. degree. But I decided that wasn’t for me and took the 2008 spring semester off to try and figure things out. During this semester off, I took a course and completed all of the testing necessary to become a certified EMT. So with that under my belt, I decided I really wanted to go to UK and get a degree in kinesiology. I am now almost done with all of the GenEd classes and plan to move on to UK for the 2009 fall semester. But enough about me! (haha)
Overall, I like the lyrics very much. I would definitely have to agree with Dylan that there is a problem with politicians trying to run a war in a foreign country from safely behind their desks here in America. The vast majority of them have no idea what it’s like out on the frontlines. All they know is that they have to try to win a war (where the enemy is not playing by any type of rules) and at the same time try to maintain the approval of their countless constituents. It sounds eerily similar to the problems we are having in Iraq and Afghanistan. In both Vietnam and the current conflict, we would have been much better off allowing the commanders on the ground to make decisions on their own instead of having to ask Washington for its opinion in order to get anything done. I trust the people in the fight much more than I will ever trust any politician. When I look at the war in the Middle East, I do think that, while I’m not sure that I would like the government to “die,” I would definitely like to see them take their hands away from our military a little more.
Hi there. This is Josh Pettit from Erin's 9:10am ENG 102 class. I have just listened to the Bob Dylan song "Masters of War" for the first time and, yeah, he's fired up alright. The song is an impassioned indictment of our leaders, holding them solely responsible for our involvement in wars across the globe and the lives lost as a result. These "Masters" sit in their lavishly furnished offices and abuse the power we gave them by sending our youth to fight and die in wars whose only purpose is to feed their own selfish ambition. Dylan isn't pulling any punches as he calls them deceitful, soulless cowards. "I hope that you die, and your death'll come soon." Why don't you tell us how you REALLY feel Bob? My favorite verse is the 5th, where he talks of being afraid to have children. Not wanting to bring another human into this world because of what it has become is a very hopeless outlook. But he gives us hope by letting us know that he isn't fooled by their lies, and neither should we allow ourselves to be.
Okay, this song is dripping with anger and hatred. And after hearing clips of the actual music, I’ve determined it is definitely folksy and even has a Native American feel to it. Bob Dylan seems to almost be preaching his message as he sings it. I agree with Ed in regards to Dylan’s tone of anarchy in the lyrics. Obviously Dylan doesn’t want war, but who really does? No one in their right mind wants it. But at times war is a necessity. Just as a parent has to set boundaries and rules for their children, a country must set boundaries for what it will and will not accept. We even enforce boundaries in our adult lives too. If you commit murder there is a consequence for it. Enforcing those boundaries has never been a fun job, whether as a parent or as a country, but omitting consequences is dangerous. It is dangerous to the future of the child, and our country as a whole.
As for a rebuttal to Robert’s blog, I do agree that our present day war is similar to Vietnam, but not that that is a bad thing. The whole premise behind the Vietnam War was to keep communism from spreading. If it had spread we may not be the America that we are today. If communism had gained enough control over the different countries, we may be facing a whole different kind of war. Not just a war on terrorism. The war of Vietnam was a war to keep communists from taking power, the war today is a war of keeping terrorists from taking power. I believe it is a very legitimate undertaking, even though it seems overwhelming and never ending. It helps to secure our freedoms. It would be nice to see more interaction of the men behind the desks. They should definitely be out in the field and serve a term of duty to get a real perspective on the tasks at hand. Tonya E.
Hello ladies and gentlemen it’s me again Mr. Graf from Erin’s band of political outcries. I have read the comments that have been posted and I get a sense of people who support what Dylan is saying about how a World War can not be won and should not be fought. I also get a sense of how people agree that in some instances war is the last and only line against your enemy. And in this lies the ultimate dilemma. Who makes the decision? Living in a land where freedom to choose gives you the right to pick your leaders to represent you in times of despair and conflict almost makes you the person who makes the decision for war. I know that not everyone gets the person they want to represent them and that is why you will always be protest to almost every action taken by our government. There is always conflict in the world. Always was and always will be. Choosing your battles is what separates us from the barbarians of days of old. I don’t want war either but when the time dose come when it is time to stand up for what you believe and live for “Freedom” I am glad to be in the United States. One question, what would you give too keep your way of life?
I would have to agree completely with Josh on his analysis of Dylan’s tone and message. There is definitely an obvious sense of “impassioned indictment.” (nice alliteration btw :D) I also love how Dylan refuses to beat around the proverbial bush at all. He is very straightforward and upfront about his true opinions, and whether I agree with what he believes or not, I have to respect the fact that he isn’t one of those people who try to please everyone and hide their true feelings.
In defense of my first blog, which was challenged by Tonya, I feel the need to expand a little on my intentions. As much as it may have seemed that I disagree with both the Vietnam War and the war we are currently fighting in the Middle East, this is not entirely true. I believe that both of these wars were completely justified to a certain extent. However, I also believe that both of these wars would have been over much faster and thousands of lives could have been saved if it weren’t for the political red tape. My cousin was in the Marine Corps and did take part in the fighting in Iraq. One of the stories he told us when he came back only furthered this belief of mine. He said that there were several nights in a row where they were being targeted by sniper fire, but they were restricted in the actions they could take against this because of the laws, rules, and regulations that some politicians in Washington had set. As much as we would like for war to be fought within certain boundaries and parameters, this is not always so. And the sooner the politicians who have never been under fire, or even held a rifle for that matter, figure this out, the better off we will be.
Robert F.
Josh again. I enjoyed Tonya's metaphor of parents setting boundaries for children, the same way a country must set boundaries for what it will or will not accept. We absolutely must have rule and order in a country with so many people. The difference here is that we as children do not get to choose our parents, though we do, to a certain extent, get to choose our government. We may not get to pick our parents but we can decide whether it is in our best interest to follow their rules or go our own way. Just because a guideline has been set buy a parental figure, that does not in itself make it worth following. At the same time just because our government dictates what is legal doesn't not mean they can tell you what is moral. That which is illegal is not necessarily immoral.
I agree with Mr. Graf that our freedom to choose our leaders makes us at least partially responsible for the actions of our country. If we elect a war monger, we have to shoulder some of that responsibility. But when the officials we put into office deviate from the principles that we elected them to uphold, it is also our responsibility to call them out . My vote does not give a politician free reign. We have to keep them in check.
I also agree that our current war in Iraq and the war in Vietnam have obvious parallels. But I disagree that either one was justified. It is my understanding that our government made the case for war in Vietnam based off of The Gulf of Tonkin incident. They told us that one of our Navy vessels was attacked by North Vietnamese and that therefore retaliation was necessary. Years later, Robert McNamara, who was our Secretary of Defense at the time, has come out and said that it never happened.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbJLwk-bJaA
For the war in Iraq, we all are familiar with how our government told us that Saddam had WMDs and that Al Qaeda operatives were in cahoots with the Saddam regime. Well, both of these things turned out to be false. So neither war was justified in my view, based on the fact that the cases our government made to get us involved were fraudulent on both counts.
Some people DO want war. The people that don't have to fight it and can fill their pockets with profits by selling lies and rockets. War is big business and men in power often use it to gain more power. Bob Dylan was pissed off and I can see why.
Hello again, this is Ed Graf again with the low down on your town. Well there Robert F. you make and incredible argument about all the red tape that out government puts on war, conflict, and rules of engagement set down from mistakes made in the past. The one thing that I look at when we fought that war of Vietnam and the war over in Iraq is that we are sending boys over there to fight men. I definitely agree that there is too much political rhetoric in the war of Vietnam and Iraq. Not too long ago there was a soldier from the US that was put on trial for killing the enemy during a time of war. In that statement there is the reason the war in Iraq is still and always will be like Vietnam. In both instances these countries would never put one of their own on trial for killing the enemy during a time of war. This is the difference between men and boys.
I would also like to comment on the metaphor that Tonya expressed and that Josh emphasized in his second comment. Although you set boundaries for your children those boundaries are not what keeps your children in line and out of trouble, it is fear. Fear is what keeps us all in check around the world. Fear of death, starving, loneliness, incarceration, and even living. Some of these fears, and there are other, are what our whole society is based on whether you choose to believe it or not. If you don’t think so just ask this one question. Why do you follow the laws of our government? Without fear there is anarchy in your home, your government, and around the world.
Okay, hello everybody, Josh again. I was trying to think of a song that echoes what Bob Dylan was singing about in "Masters of War" and I'm happy to say I found a damn near perfect match in the song "War Pigs" by Black Sabbath. These two songs have more in common than just the word "War" in the title. Here is a link to a video of the song which shows the lyrics in time ala Karaoke. Below that is a link to just the lyrics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qgs9l_U98vo
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/b/black+sabbath/war+pigs_20019418.html
Ozzy Osbourne wrote "War Pigs" and in it he talks of politicians hiding away as they start wars for others to fight. He also comments on their eventual judgment day and how they will beg for their sins, similar to how Dylan mentions the politicians loss of their souls. Bob Dylan sings about "Masters" playing with the world like it is a toy as Ozzy Osbourne sings about the "Pigs" making war for fun and treating people like pawns in chess.
I do not know of another song to compare this too. I do not normally listen to this type of music. I think it carries to much depression with it. : ( However, I do have a thought of comparison. I will compare this song to the hatred some prisoners express. In particular, the jailbirds that is bitter and angry at someone to the point of murder. This song is disturbing in the same way to me. I would not be surprised if Bob Dylan had done some illegal action to further his point in his song. It carries a sense of action to the situation he feels. That situation being the Vietnam war. The part of standing over your grave until I’m sure you’re dead makes me think that if someone else doesn’t make sure he’s dead, then he will. Bob Dylan’s unforgiving mindset will only harm him in the long run. I feel sorry for him. Posted by Tonya E.
Hey, this is Robert. First of all, I would like to say a big thank you to Ed for having my back in my argument on the involvement of politicians in something that they (for the most part, at least) don’t understand enough to make decisions on, but continue to do so anyway—war. His evidence on the trial of a soldier for killing the enemy during wartime was something that I was unaware of, honestly. But it would make sense for our government to do such a thing. Leave it to our government to talk about “justice” for one of our soldiers who was most likely defending himself. Also, there are a lot of things that Josh and I don’t agree on apparently (haha), however I did find something that we have in common. He mentioned that although we vote on the politicians leading the country, that doesn’t give them the right to do what they please, especially if it’s something completely different from what they promised. I definitely agree that we MUST keep them in check.
As for another representation of this theme or mood, I would have to pick one of my favorite bands, Avenged Sevenfold. Their song “Critical Acclaim” (PARENTAL ADVISORY – EXPLICIT LYRICS!) (http://search.playlist.com/tracks/critical%20acclaim) is not a direct match with the mood of Dylan’s song, however. “Critical Acclaim” is aimed, not exactly at the government, but more at the upper class people who know next to nothing about the war, but their self-righteousness causes them to point fingers while not caring at all about the soldiers and their families and loved ones. The song calls these people out and wants them to realize that as much as they may be against the war, it’s real, and so are the soldiers who are overseas, fighting in it, separated from their families.
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